(originally posted in at the other site) ADAC is the organization that responds to essentially every automotive Panne (breakdown) in. Reliability Statistics Bonanza: Thirty Years Of Pannenstatistik. By Paul . Here is what Michael Karesh wrote in about ADAC’s methods. Automotive News Europe 14 July Becker K, Stickel Th () Einfluss von Accessed on 20 November ADAC () Die ADAC Pannenstatistik.

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Did your mother have a flat in ? Also, these only show the winners in their respective categories, not an overall ranking.

German Reliability Statistics: Thirty Years Of ADAC’s Pannenstatistik

I do know that the little Toyota Starlet and its relatives were big over-all winners often. And to anticipate your concerns, ADAC notes mileage on each vehicle of every call in order to adjust the raw data.

The Germans are very thorough. I almost left off the most recent decade because there are some questions about whether the numbers are becoming increasingly irrelevant and less reliable due to a number of circumstances, one of them being the growth of emergency roadside services by manufacturers, although quite a number of those are contracted to ADAC. But the number from the eighties and nineties are generally considered by the automotive manufacturers as quite accurate.

You be the judge. I, and many others, have much less faith in the more recent years of these stats. After about or so, take it with a grain of salt. You could google it yourself. Older Hyundai and Skoda models may have an excuse, but anyone in the business in a big way for a century should have car building figured out by now.

Not many Brit cars listed in the right half. Are they unpopular in Germany, or just mediocre?

TÜV reports – cars reliability ratings

The volume Brit auto industry has gone pannenstxtistik. The Rover brand died in 05, according to Wiki. The specialty brands like Jag pnnenstatistik Range Rover may be too low volume on the continent to make it onto the survey. Combining a weak, low quality US producer with a weak, low quality, European producer does not look like a gene pool that will challenge Honda any time soon. On the other hand, if Marchionne takes the right approach with his merger talk, sees Chrysler as a short term investment and sells it to GM, who would like to get their hands on Jeep, Fiat would make a few tens of billions of profit on the deal.

But pannenetatistik the other hand, I aadc imagine they would manage to let larger Maserati and Chrysler share the same platform in the coming years and maybe Dodge can get a simpler version too. First, FCA sells more Jeeps than any other nameplate.

Toledo and Jefferson North would continue as is, building Jeeps. GM would not even need to buy out huge numbers of Chrysler and Dodge dealers, like they did when they killed Olds.

As part of the bankruptcy proceeding, Chrysler closed vast numbers of dealers and forced others to carry all four brands under one roof. The dealers would still be in business without Chrysler, Dodge or Ram brands, because they would still have Jeep, which is the largest seller anyway.

Toledo and Jefferson North are two main plants, but apart from them there are many more important plants. Actually, Chrysler has been dying for nearly 40 years. Bailed out in Pannenstaistik performed a miracle getting it turned around, but, iirc, he went on an empire building binge buying Gulfstream in 85, and Lamborgini in Sticks in my mind that, by the time Daimler Benz bought the company, it was not doing terribly well, again.

Cerberus finished the job axac running the company into the ground. The lousy ownership experience will eventually catch up with them, just as it did in the 70s. I saw the report of that e-mail too. Some consistencies can be seen, however. For example, Audi reliability has also overtaken Benz in the States. The S-class probably suffers from what Click and Clack used to call the Sir Edmund Hillary school of auto design — they built technology into it because they could rather than any consumer-focused reason.


If only it had been more like a Toyota Century or Lincoln Town Car, sticking to long-proven, appropriate levels of tech for a big, often chauffeur-driven model while something more sporting served as the tech flagship….

The reliability of Toyota Century is unknown due to the limited numbers and access. If it proves to be cost effective to maintain and has easier access, I would like to pick it as the replacement for my Buick LeSabre roomy, pannenstatistjk highway cruiser with reasonable maintaining cost.

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Yeah, good luck getting a Century. If you think a more thorough analysis is required, I might adaf interested in lending my skills. This sounds like a good application for programmatically extracting data and performing some statistical analysis. I did this back in And it tends to support what is generally accepted about most of these good and bad cars; not a lot of surprises, actually. Except maybe the very dismal showing of the Opel Commodore.

The TUV rankings are interesting too. Certain German cars creep into the top rankings with the Japanese after a number of years that way, as Japanese cars are purchased by people that rely on their cars for covering huge mileage while Porsche s and Mercedes SLKs average about 5K miles a year in Germany. The funny thing is there are always Europeans on internet forums claiming that VWs and other mass-market European cars are just as reliable as the best cars from Japan in Europe.

Open a copy of CR and look…. That being said, some of the European brands may have improved a lot over the last 10 years. Maybe not a Toyota or Honda, but better than the 90s, when windows came out of the track, timing belts broke before the scheduled replacement interval, smoking coil packs, water pumps with plastic impellers than crumbled….

Speaking as someone who lived with a LeMans for a few years, I find it interesting that the Kadett E appears to have been as much a piece of junk as its Daewoo offspring. If my experience is any guide, the Daewoo might actually be better.

Money pit that it was mostly HVAC it never left me or my ex stranded. She had that car for nearly ten years. America, poor quality tarnished sales. My ex is a high school teacher.

At the time she bought the car she had nothing but praise for the salesman. Of course he tried to move her up into a Sunbird or an ex-rental Grand Am, but as a college student working a graveyard shift even a stripper Sunbird was too much.

ADAC Info – Pannenstatistik

She took that to heart pannesntatistik he turned out to be right. That sounds about right. It was a Korean copy of a Bosch item. GM had discontinued most LeMans parts not long after the car was discontinued and the neighborhood shop we always used had called their regular suppliers to no avail. Finally one of the techs looked it up in a Hollander panhenstatistik and discovered that it cross referenced with a BMW part number.

They called the local Bimmer store and we got the car back with a genuine Bosch relay the next day. Pannenstatisgik, the company that builds the car owns responsibility for everything that goes into it. It may not be a coincidence that Japan tends to emphasize group harmony in their culture, something Western dilettantes may never be able to internalize. In regards to the Cobalt et all ignition switch Delphi was still a wholly owned subsidiary of GM when it was originally designed and first went into production.


Must have been a long lead time. Delphi became independent of GM in True, you did not say that it was infallible and frankly the Takata mess is the most egregious example. But, this kind of short-sightedness creeps into every society, IMO. How it manifests itself is different each time. My sister upon returning from Europe test drove a Pontiac Le mans thinking Euro car built in Korea should be good, she promptly bought a Toyota the Lemans was terrible to drive, never mind own.

I wonder if that is because Citroen improved their products from abysmal to slightly below average, while by the early 90s everyone else had actually learned how to make cars reliable? The inclusion of the 2cv is also perplexing, as it was quite reliable and well tested indeed, especially by The BX is basicly a reclothed Peugeot yet only the Citroen shows up as unreliable when one badge proves worse or better signifigantly than its stable mate I call BS statistics.

Or a Skoda doing substantially better than the Volkswagen, while riding on the same platform and having the same powertrain. It helps if badge-engineered twins are built in the same factory. I only rely on my own statistics: Immaculate maintenance and treating my machinery with respect.

So far so good. Did I not make it perfectly clear in my text that in recent years, these have been increasingly tainted by alleged manipulation by the manufacturers? But that was not the case in 80s and 90s. It provides a useful look at historical statistics from that era. From new it needed WD40 to start if there was even a hint of moisture in the air, which there usually was in our coastal town.

I find discussions of reliability one of the most intriguing things on this site. I mean, they struggle to sell new cars in the UK anyway, dunno about elsewhere because their dodgy reputation gives them low resale values. The Tipo is a good example.

In elephant-memory UK, Lancia was still forced out not because of reliability but because people still thought they would disintegrate in 6 months. FYI we have a Mazda and a Yamaha.

I can tell you that pannnenstatistik what I hear from my friends in the motor trade, current models are nothing like the old horrors in the reliability stakes. Certainly the Fiat diesels are class leaders as far as reliability is concerned how about an Alfa 5 cyl diesel which managed to make to toKmmiles before the engine died. On the contrary to what people are saying above, things like Toyota Starlets are bought here mainly by old age pensioners, that is, people who cover very little mileages, so that has to be brought into account I am not saying they are unreliable, just not the wonder car the survey makes them out to be.

What is though not reflected in the survey is that VW in Europe has not been as good as it should be and there are quite a few horror stories about — I think VW is going through a period similar to the one M-B had in the early 90s, and they need to snap out of it maybe it will happen now that their management wars pannenstatisgik simingly concluded. Opel is now reliable and the Inignias seem to cover high mileages pannenstatisttik falling apart.

As a very experienced mechanic working on all brands once told me: Toyotas panennstatistik mainly bought by old er people who treat their car as if it was made of gold and never put the pedal to the metal. At the pnanenstatistik end: